Is it reasonable to not give an SEO access to our CMS?

[ChristinaRadisic]

A client (we designed their website) recently employed an SEO who required FTP access or access to the CMS.

We told the client they would need to take full responsibility for any updates the SEO carried out, otherwise, the SEO could send over the changes and we would put them in at no extra cost to the client.

The client didn't want to take responsibility and denied the SEO access to the CMS, and told the SEO to send over the completed work for us to put into the site.

The SEO was not happy with this arrangement, and didn't seem to understand that we needed to trust him before access was would be given at a future date.

Other SEO's have never had a problem with this arrangement, but this SEO claimed what they do is secret and for no one else to see.

SEO want's to proceed, client doesn't want to proceed, we are happy to update the website with the client's approval.  This particular client has a reputation for backing out of things.  Also from the initial client, SEO contact the SEO was ready to update the website within 24 hours.

Are we being unreasonable?

[JVRudnick]

Exact same thing has happened to us in the past too....

One of our clients is a major Canuck city's Economic Development dept whose mandate is to get new businesses and investors to come to their city to invest and open new businesses. At first, we too were denied access to anything - we had to create long Word .docs with full directions and screenshots of what to do and where to do it. However, after 5 renewals over the past 5 years, we were given full access to their site via both their CMS and ftp too...

Proving I'd suspect that trust needs to be "earned" - not given freely is how I'd see it...

Oh in another case another SEO client - a major Canuck University has not been able to give that same earned trust access as their site includes credit card info - buried deep and encrypted - but PCI specs say that they should limit access....so again we do the full Word .doc blueprints for their site....

[BlueprintMarketing]

you can use whatever CMS or code you want on this part.

How to keep your hosting and create a staging environment NON WordPress as well

 

you can use it on a server as bespoke as you please. (You must have root access)

https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRA/Establishing+Staging+Server+Environments+for+JIRA

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3844369/git-production-staging-server-workflow

I hope this will be more helpful.

all the best,

Tom

[Chris.Menke]

Call me batty, but in 10 years and a bunch-load of clients (usually agencies), I've only touched a small percentage of sites.  I write up the changes that need to be implemented so that designers/webmasters/programmers can either cut and paste what's necessary or have a good understanding of the changes that are necessary, and then I review once they're finished.  If they do have questions, I help them by phone.

[ChristinaRadisic]

Cheers for all the information.

I don't work with Wordpress or Joomla.

Usually bespoke systems only.

[BlueprintMarketing]

Are you running WordPress? If you are here are a list of hosting companies that provide staging servers.

I'm glad to hear you guys are looking into possibly working this out hopefully it's just a miscommunication.

I think staging servers are a godsend and allow people to do things that they will know if they could have gotten away with are not once they try it.

This list is partial to staging every web post is very good there's one I state do not use unless you use their VIP plan I wish I did have to say that but I can't recommend them without stating that.

http://wpengine.com/plans/ (probably the best staging environment available)

You can get four months for free of WPengine & 30% off for life from Pagely via https://Moz.com/perks

https://kinsta.com/features/ (outstanding staging and hosting)

https://pantheon.io/features/version-control-workflow (awesome)

http://www.presslabs.com/ (great hosting and staging)

https://getflywheel.com/tour/staging-sites/ (must just say please turn on staging)

https://pagely.com/plans-pricing/wordpress-vps-hosting/ (one of my favorites but staging only available on VPS & enterprise plans. I must say it is worth it)

https://pressable.com/ (unless you're going to get a private “VIP” cloud the downtime is very bad and will hopefully get better soon but until then I cannot say use these guys in less you are going for the VIP plan an amazing staging set up.)

https://www.siteground.com ( inexpensive offers staging)

http://mediatemple.net/webhosting/wordpress/ (offers staging)

** How to keep your hosting and create a staging environment NON WordPress as well**

http://www.wpbeginner.com/wp-tutorials/how-to-create-staging-environment-for-a-wordpress-site/

https://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRA/Establishing+Staging+Server+Environments+for+JIRA

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3844369/git-production-staging-server-workflow

I think if the person is really trying to do things without other people knowing what they are that's not good. At the same time I would be wary of anyone keeping secrets.

I hope this information is a step towards you guys working it out.

Sincerely,

Thomas

[ChristinaRadisic]

We will certainly look into a staging server.

Although the web developer does some magic and I'm not usually updating the live site.

[ChristinaRadisic]

Unfortunately we weren't part of the process to hire the SEO company.

[BlueprintMarketing]

Try using a staging server it's kind of crazy to be making changes to the live site regardless. There are some great staging servers out there that will allow access to them then only once the site is definitely not broken or heard in any other fashion then you can move forward.

Saves you having to do their work and them having this issue. I do agree everyone talking about the secrecy stuff there's no secret sauce it's create the best website and best user experience.

Most people would be proud to say what they're doing not say that this is MI fives operation

[BlueprintMarketing]

I want to say I agree anything they say is "secret" is probably not white hat. I don't think anyone here is worried about someone stealing their formula for on page search.

However it's possible the person he's used to working in a certain way.

If you're going to do the work and allow them to delegate to you and you're actually going to do what they say I don't see an issue with it all.

[Chris.Menke]

Thought should then turn to the original decision made to hire that SEO firm and how a similar decision could be avoided in the future.

[ChristinaRadisic]

Thank you everyone for giving us feed back.

We don't want to be difficult but ultimately we are there to protect our client and to give them the best advise.  We have already had one client suffer at the hands of a bad SEO, which cost them their on-line business.

After investigating this particular company, I've found plenty of complaints about them.  I've also found they use linking farms.  In this instant I'm glad I protect my client from them.

[Andy-Halliday]

no its not being unreasonable - what happens if the SEO guy changed something and broke the website - would would the client ring up and moan at the SEO guy or the web design agency.

If the guy was willing to take responsibility for his changes, then they would be unreasonable, but why would they allow someone to edit their work and potentially break the site - only for them to get moaned at.

SEO is 'secret' anymore - so I don't get what they guy has from not willing to work with the agency. To me it sounds like he will be doing stuff he isn't willing to share so either black hat techniques or doesn't actually knows what he is talking about so was going to bluff it until the client clicked on that the guy was b*ll shitting.

[Red_Spot_Interactive]

In short- Yes, you are being unreasonable. You are not allowing the SEO to do their job, and will be hindering your own results.

[MickEdwards]

"Other SEO's have never had a problem with this arrangement, but this SEO claimed what they do is secret and for no one else to see."

Run a mile!!!

[ChristinaRadisic]

Obviously I don't know the conversations between the client and the SEO.

We also do SEO work and alarm bells ring when something doesn't sound quite right. Such as "their website doesn't rank anywhere in the SE" when it's in position 5 for their chosen keyword.

Since posting this message I've had a quick look into the SEO company, they seem to work on linking from this domain which looks dodgy to me.

http://listofdomains.org/

[ChristinaRadisic]

This is exactly how we work.

We don't want to block someone else doing their job, but to us it is similar to handing over full banking access to a stranger.

[ChristinaRadisic]

We aren't using this company our client is, we aren't stopping them from doing their job but have concerns about black hate issues.

[donford]

I kind of have the feeling that there is something missing in the story. This is one of the challenges that  happen when dealing with multiple hands in the kitty.

I wouldn't really buy the SEO's excuse of what they do is secret. Rather what they really mean is, we don't want to train another web company how to do what we do.

As a web developer I would understand why an SEO would want access, it could make things easier and faster. Having to go through company A to submit to get company C a change may not be exactly the service company A purchased.

As an SEO I understand why a web developer would be skittish about giving access to a company they had no hand in hiring. The web devs do a lot of hard work, some of which can actually be proprietary. I would of course in an SEO perspective be willing to work within those constraints if need be.

In the end it becomes Company's A issue. They need to find a compromise between company b and c. If it takes extra money to get the service for the SEO, or figure out which one they feel is the most valuable and fire the other and find a  replacement that is willing to work within the constraints they lay out.

My thoughts..

[Andy-Halliday]

I agree, I wouldn't have given them access without trusting them, all it takes is for them to alter one line of code and the site could crash.

Sometimes SEO's ( and I used to be like this but have changed) look at SEO in silo and don't think about how the changes impact other parts of the business / website - so a change that is good for SEO isn't always good for the website or the business.

So nope, I wouldn't give him access - our developers don't allow me access, I have to put a business case forward each time to get changes done, which has to be present and approved by senior management. Without this I could ask for a change which could cause a lot of issues.

[Chris.Menke]

Christina,

It's ridiculous that the SEO says what they do is secret. It's also ridiculous that they demand access to the site, else the changes won't be made.  It seems like an easy enough solution though--if they want the business, then they send you the changes to incorporate, otherwise, the job goes to someone else.

[BlueprintMarketing]

I understand how that SEO feels you are preventing them from doing their job if you do not allow them root access.

If you do not trust them enough to actually be in there on the server then you should not be using them.

There are alternatives like staging servers but search engine optimization is done over a long time and definitely requires admin access to the server I imagine this person does not want you doing what you think is best and affecting their work just the same way as you do not want them affecting you by doing something else to the server.

A good SEO should work with a developer if they do not have that knowledge.

this is actually something a SEO should know before taking the job although it is definitely assumed.

I would not presume to tell you how to do your job I feel that they probably feel the same way.

Hope that helps,

Tom