Moz Q&A is closed.
After more than 13 years, and tens of thousands of questions, Moz Q&A closed on 12th December 2024. Whilst we’re not completely removing the content - many posts will still be possible to view - we have locked both new posts and new replies. More details here.
Is it bad (black hat) to have an H1 text as a text indent?
-
Is it bad practice to use a text indent through CSS for H1 text on a homepage(basically hiding h1 text)? I'm just trying to compensate for the fact that some text that should really be in the h1 tag is actually an image.
-
Thanks for the advice! That sounds like a good plan B if I can't get the developers to change the image to text. This is definitely one of the most avoidable yet most frustrating on page issues I encounter.
I guess it's time to update my documentation for development.
-
Thanks, I was just thinking that too, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
-
Hi Mike,
I'd personally say that you're fine, depending how you impliment it.
I personally believe that as long as the text that you add reads what the image contains, you're fine.
SEOmoz even use image replacement!
Good luck!
-
Hi Mike, The text-indent property can be applied to block-level elements (P, H1, etc.) to define the amount of indentation that the first line of the element should receive. The value must be a length or a percentage; percentages refer to the parent element's width. A common use of text-indent would be to indent a paragraph:
**`P { text-indent: 5em }`**
The usage of
text-indent:-9999px
to display a site logo or other image while hiding text should be avoided. It’s a technique used by web spammers trying to game search engines like Google, and is considered spammy behavior. Instead, use an tag and put the text inside itsalt
attribute.According to Matt Cuts (and some other comments) the best solution is to use an image with
alt
andtitle
attributes. Thealt
attribute is for SEO and thetitle
attribute is for accessibility. Using an image also makes sense for semantic markup. A company logo is actually an important piece of content.**`# <a< span="">href="http://stackoverflow.com"> <img< span="">src="logo.png" alt="Stack Overflow" title="Click to return to Stack Overflow homepage" /></img<></a<>`**
<code>Well, recently, I'm thinking about SEO effects with using something like h1 {text-indent: -9999px; background: url('xyz') }...
I dont think I trust this anymore to be good for SEO. And I don't mean that it's actually "good" for it, because that would certainly be bad SEO techniques. I'm just thinking that it wouldn't be too far fetched to believe that in the search algorithms that anything that is negative text indent over ABC pixels, is considered spam and either isn't registered, or even worse, effects your site negatively.</code>Hiding the contents of an H1 tag, such that the search engine is presented with textual content which is not visible to a visitor, is SEO Spamming, and can get the site banned if one of your client's competitors catches you doing it and turns you in! It is, in fact, a form of hidden text spamming (itself "Black Hat", and explicitly banned by all of the major search engines). With the offense made all the worse by the fact you are doing it with an H1 tag, rather than non-emphasized text (Due to both the power of an H1, and the real estate it would take-up if rendered on-screen) Google makes it pretty clear that hidden text spamming is prohibited. In fact, they have a web page in their anti-spam guidelines devoted to it! They also have a check-off box (the first one, in fact!) on their spam report page specifically dedicated to reporting this kind of spamming (see 3rd link - requires login). The fact that Google may not explicitly list every means of hiding keywords does not therefore make a particular spamming technique legit. Indeed, as Google states in their Webmaster guidelines (see 1st link) - "It's not safe to assume that just because a specific deceptive technique isn't included on this page, Google approves of it." However, in this case, this method of hiding content is specifically prohibited. On their Hidden Text Spamming page (2nd link), Google lists examples of various tricks to hide content, including specifically - "Using CSS to hide text" Which is what you are proposing to do here. While implementing this with external CSS files MAY make this a bit harder for Google to detect via automated means, it is also a VERY easy technique for someone to spot. All it takes is for just ONE of your client's competitors (OR their SEO's) to wonder why the site is coming-up higher in the SERPs than they are, notice what you are doing, and turn you in to Google for spamming! Any short-term gain you may obtain from such a technique is not worth the risk of getting your client's site banned from Google. The original quote from the WebmasterWorld discussion referenced by the Search Engine Roundtable link Shaq Ali provided makes the following excellent point - "For those who may be hiding things through CSS or negatively positioning content off screen to manipulate page content, I surely wouldn't do that with any long term projects. ;) The penalty for getting busted using this technique I would imagine is a PERMANENT BAN.* No if's, and's, or but's, you're history. You'll need a pardon from the Governor to be reconsidered for inclusion. ;)" (* - Bold replaced with caps) #### Links: * [http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769](http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fsupport%2Fwebmasters%2Fbin%2Fanswer%2Epy%3Fhl%3Den%26answer%3D35769&urlhash=woHy "New window will open") * [http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353](http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fsupport%2Fwebmasters%2Fbin%2Fanswer%2Epy%3Fanswer%3D66353&urlhash=e5Vy "New window will open") * [https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/spamreport](http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fwebmasters%2Ftools%2Fspamreport&urlhash=UReX "New window will open") I hope that your query had been solved.
-
If he put the image within the h1, and set the alt text to what he wanted the H1 would that help? It wouldn't be ideal but it could be a workaround that would yield some results.
I agree the design should encompass the proper tags, especially the H1 and H2.
-
Hiding text through CSS is against Google's TOS. So basically it can be classified as "black hat".
Your H1 should tell your users what your page is about, if you have to hide it for whatever reason, there may be something wrong with your design.
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Alt text and itemprop description
I want to optimise the logo on our site. Our developers have presently got the site logo code like this: 601 character description, no keywords 1. How best to use the alt text and description? 2. Do I concentrate on alt text? Isn't the 601 character description:
Technical SEO | | abisti2
a) too long, and
b) an opportunity to add relevant keywords again, like the alt text?0 -
Word mentioned twice in URL? Bad for SEO?
Is a URL like the one below going to hurt SEO for this page? /healthcare-solutions/healthcare-identity-solutions/laboratory-management.html I like the match the URL and H1s as close as possible but in this case it looks a bit funky. /healthcare-solutions/healthcare-identity-solutions/laboratory-management.html
Technical SEO | | jsilapas0 -
Self Referencing Links - Good or Bad?
As an agency we get quite a few of our clients come to us saying "Ooo, this company just contacted me saying they've run an SEO report on my site and we need to improve on these following things" We had one come through the other day that had reported on something we had not seen in any others before. They called them self-referencing links and marked it as a point of action should be taken. They had stated that 100% of the pages on our clients website had self-referencing links. The definition of self-referencing is when there is a link on a page that is linking to the page you are currently on. So for example you're on the home page and there is a link in the nav bar at the top that says "Home" with a link to the home page, the page you are already currently on. Is it bad practice? And if so can we do anything about it as it would seem strange from a UI point of view not to have a consistent navigation. I have not heard anything about this before but I wanted to get confirmation before going back to our client and explaining. Thanks Mozzers!
Technical SEO | | O2C0 -
Isnt it better to have headlines in H1 and H2 tags instead of p tags?
I am working with a simple site http://http://lightsigns.com/Uniko_Manufacturing_Limited.html They seek more SEO traffic. However, the two big headlines that read "Wholesale Supply to the Sign and Display Industries" which is on line 241 and 242 of the source code, its in a p tag, i.e. <p <span class="webkit-html-tag">style</p <span>="padding-top: 0pt; " class="paragraph_style_1">Wholesale Supply to the and <p <span class="webkit-html-tag">style</p <span>="padding-bottom: 0pt; " class="paragraph_style_1">Sign and Display Industries Likewise, the product titles are in p tags, also. For example, on the Slide-in Light Box product page, http://lightsigns.com/Slide_In_light_box.html , I have done keyword research and no one is using the words slide in light box.Plus, it is also a p tag, ie. line 43 reads style="padding-bottom: 0pt; padding-top: 0pt; " class="paragraph_style">Slide-in Light Box If I suggest that they make an H2 tag with SEO-optimized keywords such as Display Light Box - Slide-In LIght Box, would this indeed help SEO? In summary, is it correct to say that H1 and H2 tags are stronger signals to the search bots of what the page is about?
Technical SEO | | BridgetGibbons1 -
Footer Links with same anchor text on all pages
We have different websites targeted at the different services our company provides. (e.g. For our document storage services, we have www.ukdocumentstorage.com. For document management, we have www.document-management-solutions.co.uk). If we take the storage site for example, every single page has a link in the footer to our document management site, with the anchor text 'Cleardata Document Management' SEOMoz is telling me that these are seen as external links (as they are on a different URL's), and I'm just clarifying that would this be a major possible factor in the website not ranking highly? How should I rectify this issue?
Technical SEO | | janc0 -
Should H1 tags include location?
I have an IT services company that is based out of Denver. In the past I always used Denver in the H1 tag like this "Denver IT Support & Managed Services" or "Denver Data Center Solutions" I know that H tags are not that important any more but I still want to put them on each page. My question is in a post panda world do those look too spammy? Should I not include Denver on each page. I have about 25 service pages that I was going to do this for. Each page will be different because of the service but I was going to include Denver on each page. On that same note how, I normally put never in the title for each page. Should I rethink this also? Obvisouly I want to rank on Denver and the service. Any help on this would be great. Thanks
Technical SEO | | ZiaTG0 -
Can I format my H1 to be smaller than H2's and H3's on the same page?
I would like to create a web design with 12px H1 and for sub headings on the page to be more like 24px. Will search engines see this and dislike it? The reason for doing it is that I want to put a generic page title in the banner, and more poetic headings above the main body. Example: Small H1: Wholesale coffee, online coffee shop and London roastery Large h2: Respect the bean... Thanks
Technical SEO | | Crumpled_Dog
Scott0 -
Text in div
When you use text in a div like this: <div id="container"> <h1 id="doc-header">Your Business in your Location - Your Services</h1> <p>Top industries are getting hit.p> <div id="branding"> <a href="#"> <img id="logo" src="images/logo.png" alt="Your Site" /> </a> </div> Are there SEO consequences when you put text in divs?
Technical SEO | | PlusPort0