Hit hard by Panda 3.3 and Penguin. What to do?
-
Hi there.
I work with a company that was originally all white hat, then began to dabble in some pretty serious black hat activities last year (usually paid linking in private blog networks). At the time we saw tremendous results - many of our most highly competitive keywords shot up 20, 30 positions to the top 10. And they didn't seem to budge so long as we kept those (very expensive) links intact.
Alongside all of this, we have had a lot of white hat activity going on (pretty much everything recommended by Google/SEO Moz is ALSO in effect on this domain - lots of consistent/relevant blogging, social media, good content, good on-site SEO, etc), which I attribute to SOME of our success with keyword ranking, but what really made the difference was the paid linking. Let's just say we had two different mindsets behind the SEO strategy of the company, and the "Get rich quick" one worked for a while. Now, it doesn't. (Can you guess if I'm the white hat or the black hat at the company?)
So here's my question. I have made the effort to contact all of the webmasters of our egregious links and, as everyone else has described, it is effectively useless. Especially given the amazing post by Ryan Kent on this question (http://www.seomoz.org/q/does-anyone-have-any-suggestions-on-removing-spammy-links) I have sort of given up on the strategy of contacting these webmasters on a case by case basis and asking for the links to be removed, especially if Google is not going to accept anything less than a perfect backlink portfolio. It is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to clean up these links.
Meanwhile, this company is a big name in a very competitive online market and it really needs to see lead generation from organic SEO. (Please don't give me any told-you-so's here, it was out of my hands.)
MY QUESTION IS:
WHAT SHOULD WE DO? Should we just keep the domain going and focus on only building quailty links from now on? Most of our keywords fall anywhere from position 40 to position 150 right now, so it's not like ALL hope is lost. But as any SEO knows that is basically as good as not being indexed at all.
OTHER OPTION: We have an old domain that is the less-SEO-friendly, but it is the official name of our company . com, and this domain is currently 301'd to our live (SEO-friendly) domain. The companyname.com domain is also older than our SEO friendly domain. Should we manually move our site back over to the old domain since there is no penalty on it? It seems like a lot of sites that are ranking are brand new anyway (except their URL's are loaded with keywords.)
Blah, I know that was a lot, but I'm feeling lost and ANY insight would be helpful.
Thanks as always SEOMoz!!
-
Thank you Rand. I also think this is the best idea. Really appreciate the help.
-
I've not seen penalties transfer via the 301 very often (in fact, I've only heard stories of it but never seen it confirmed with a public example). I'd probably do the 301 - as you said, it's not a great experience otherwise for visitors who bookmarked or get referred to the old domain.
If you're really nervous, you could create a message that shows up on the site and refers visitors to the new location, but that's a lot of extra work, and requires that extra click, which isn't great for UX.
I suppose if you're sure Google is going to pass the penalty, you could use the 301, but robots.txt block the site from being accessed, so Google wouldn't actually see the site being moved over (thus, it would show Google you're doing this purely for UX and not for SEO).
-
Wow, a response from Rand! I'm honored :-D. Thank you for your input.
You're definitely right about Google "scaring" people into White Hat SEO and I think they were very effective in that sense.
I'm actually going to be moving onto a new (strictly white hat) marketing company but I need to come up with a future plan for this current (penalized) site.
If I advise this company to rebuild a website using the old domain, what would you suggest as far as redirecting the current (penalized) domain? I've heard a 301 redirect transfers the penalty to the new site. But I do anticipate that there will be a good number of visitors landing on the penalized site. Should I build a page that doesn't redirect but tells users "Please visit "newdomain.com" to learn more about our company" ? Or should we have both sites live simultaneously and just create all new content so as to avoid the duplicate content issue? Any suggestions?
Thank you all.
-
I think this is exactly what Google hoped would happen with the Penguin update - SEOs and marketers who invested in gray/black hat links would have such an utterly horrific time trying to dig out that it would scare a broad swath of the industry into more white hat territory. Whether that's actually working is arguable, but it was certainly a goal of the update.
If you are ready to make the move over to the old domain, I wouldn't stop you. However, if you've built up some valuable brand equity, visitor loyalty and marketing prowess outside of SEO on this site, there's a few other possibilities:
- Work hard on UX and UI. Google hates penalizing beautiful sites that visitors love, and if you do get a manual review, this can help.
- Make the content truly exceptional, too. Ensure that there's nothing that feels like artificial/manipulative/done-just-for-rankings stuff on the site. Again, this makes it more likely that any reconsideration request will work
- Send out as many requests for link removal as possible and include the lists of where/how you acquired links and how you've tried to remove them in your reconsideration request
- Hope and pray
This process might not get you back in, but it could work. Google's requiring a "good faith" effort and some proof of said effort, but there's a possibility your site might get by. For the future, I'd strongly recommend sticking to entirely editorially given/earned links.
Wish you luck!
-
if you're having to contact webmasters, I would bet at least some of them are getting bombarded by a lot of similar requests. If it's on sites of the type I am figuring we're having to deal with (low quality sites that were designed with no care, regard or concern for anything other than low-level SEO), they're very unlikely to care about people harmed by the changes. And just as likely, want to spend their time figuring out a new get rich off nonsense scheme.
-
Thank you for the advice Alan. Maybe we can hope that over time all those sites get deindexed and so the links disappear on their own, because I'm finding it impossible to contact webmasters / they don't seem happy to help us out.
-
Play with fire, get burned. Yes, you already know that. No, I don't think you personally should have to suffer through untold similar cliche's.
So here's the reality. Without cleaning up the profile, it's highly unlikely the site will ever recover. That leaves the only other reasonable option, which is the drastic one. Abandon the existing domain as far as SEO goes and start fresh with the clean domain.
That's potentially going to be the biggest challenge to get others to agree to, because those who have the guts to play with fire in a known dangerous environment typically have too big an ego to admit there isn't yet another quick and easy fix that instantly reaps big rewards on the scale that should never have been achieved previously in the first place.
However even Matt Cutts said this past week, that in worst case scenarios, people just may need to start with a new site. When Matt comes out and says that, you can be sure the potential for all hope to be gone on a now burned site to rebound is now lower than it ever was.
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Multiple similar links without the penguin?
Hi, I´m working with a site where clients proudly will publish a link to us as sort of a sign/partner symbol for using our services. Potentially we could have thousands or at least hundreds of links pointing to us and we could tailor/provide snippets for the links that clients can use on their site. I´m part of a team that just started working with this site and I realize this is a great opportunity that has not yet been exploited. I´m also a little paranoid that this tactic might be picked up by the penguin or that google sees it as black hat if not done wisely ? But links will only come from respectable business sites although ranging from different genres both really big and small.
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | Agguk
Today links are mostly leading to our frontpage from our clients but I would like to tailor links so that each client could link to a page that is targeted on the keyword/service they have been using (and awarded diploma for) I think this would serve both the client and our SEO better ? I would really appreciate suggestions and comments on how to approach this best! Here is my plan so far, trying to make good/right use of the opportunity without offending google:
-Most links will be through a logo/sign that shows the award/diploma earned through our service.
I think the "alt" -tag should include both our company brand name and the service/target keyword for the page it´s leading to. -We could also provide a short text describing the earned award and our brand name and this whole text would also lead to the same page on our site.
...I guess using only the targeted keyword as anchor -link within the text would be a bad idea? -Where possible I would also like to customize this short text a little for each client (although that will be hard and only possible to some degree). As we provide "link material" for the client to include on their site, would it be wise to have them use an image that is hosted on our site or send them the image so they can publish that instead? Grateful for any feedback on this! Thanks!0 -
Was hit with panda in 2012, what to do now?
Hi Folks, back in june 2012 when link building was the thing and I had no idea how to do it and hence outsourced link building. Company 1 would write a post and distribute it on multiple different domains after spinning it. Company 2, after company 1 was fired did directory submissions on PR0 websites for two months before i discontinued the service with them. I still have the excel file of the links they built. It goes without mentioning that the links were junk. When panda came about our website was hit. Back then i let it slide and we stopped link building and started doing things "white hat". Genuinely doing good things so to say. I never however did anything to fix the penalty. Now i would like to look back at that issue and see if the penalties are still holding us back and if I can do anything to fix it. Should I address this issue now or is it too late to matter? How would i do it, a link audit through a freelancer? What do you SEO mozters recommend?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | TVape0 -
Google Panda and Penguin "Recovery"
We're working with a client who had been hit by Google Panda (duplicate content, copyright infringement) and Google Penguin (poor backlinks). While this has taken a lot of time, effort and patience to eradicate these issues, it's still been more than 6 months without any improvement. Have you experienced longer recovery periods? I've seen sites perform every black hat technique under the sun and still nearly 2 years later..no recovery! In addition many companies I've spoken to advised their clients to begin right from the very beginning with a new domain, site etc.
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | GaryVictory0 -
Are Links from blogs with person using keyword anchor text a Penguin 2.0 issue?
Hello, I am continuing a complete clean up of a clients link profile and would like to know if Penguin is against links from blogs with the user including keywords as anchor text? So far I have been attempting to get them removed before I go for a disavow. An example would be the work clothing comment at the bottom of: http://www.fashionstyleyou.co.uk/beat-the-caffeine-rush.html/comment-page-1 I am also questioning if we should keep any link directories, so far I have been ruthless, but worry I will be losing a hell of a lot of links. For example I have kept the following: http://www.business-directory-uk.co.uk//clothing.htm Your comments are welcomed!
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | MarzVentures0 -
Post-Penguin 2.0 Gust Blogging
I'm really just curious about everyone’s thoughts on post-Penguin 2.0 guest blogging. Is it still a viable option for link building? Is there anything you should proactively do to make it "safe"? What makes a guest blog post "advertorial" (or would it never be, if it is clearly marked as a guest post with a writer's bio)? Will moderate guest blogging on highly related, top ranked sites ever be a prime target for Google updates? I feel like guest blogging is still a viable way to build links, as long as it is on high quality and highly relevant sites that post content people actually read. Limit the number of links to 1-3 for every post, use generic or branded text as anchor text rather than your "top keyword" anchor text of old, and make the content interesting (educational or funny, not just for the sake of getting links) and completely unique to the site you are posting on. Just my 2 cents. Anyone else?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | jaredkipe0 -
Penalized by Penguin 2.0
I believe our site has been penalizes by Penguin 2.0. Our impressions in Google Webmaster are down and our traffic in Google Analytics also took a hit. Both of these occurences took place right when Penguin 2.0 was unleashed. What are the steps I need to take to regain my ranking? Is disallowing all the links I think maybe spammy the first thing to do?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | joebuilder0 -
Month old site and alreasdy ranks 3 for competitive keyword
I know this individual does this with several sites and then offers them for sale to his competitors. Obviously spammy thru and thru, but how can google reward a site thats not even two months old, with 1900 + links with a ranking of #3 for a highly competitive keyword? Please dont post the actual name or url of the website as we dont want to give him any more credit but this blows my mind as he has done this several times with other sites and never gets penalized. http://tinyurl.com/b9jysa5 Any ideas as to how he can accomplish this besides almost 2000 links in less than 2 months? How is that even remotely natural? I know his other sites have been reported to google but they never did anything about it. Thanks for any feedback.
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | anthonytjm0 -
EMD with 3.3million broad match searches got hit hard by Panda/Penguin
k, so I run an ecommerce website with a kick ass domain name. 1 keyword (plural)
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | SwissNinja
3.3 million broad match searches (local monthly)
3.2 million phrase match
100k exact match beginning of march I got a warning in GWT about unnatural links. I feel pretty certain its a result of an ex-employee using an ALN listing service to drip spun article links on splogs. This was done also for another site of mine, which received the same warning, except bounced back much sooner (from #3 for EMD w/ 100k broad, 60k phrase and 12k exact, singular keyword phrase) I did file reinclusion on the 2nd (smaller) domain. Received unnatural warning on 4/13 and sent reconsideration on 5/1 (tune of letter is "I have no clue what is up, I paid someone $50 and now Im banned) As of this morning, I am not ranking for any of my terms (had boucned back on main keyword to spot #30 after being pushed down from #4) now back to the interesting site....
this other domain was bouncing between 8-12 for main keyword (EMD) before we used ALN.
Once we got warning, we did nothing. Once rankings started to fall,we filed reinclusion request...rankings fell more, and filed another more robustly written request (got denials within 1 week after each request)until about 20 days ago when we fell off of the face of the earth. 1- should I take this as some sort of sandbox? We are still indexed, and are #1 for a search on our domain name. Also still #1 in bing (big deal) 2- I've done a detailed analysis of every link they provide in GWT. reached out to whatever splog people I could get in touch with asking them to remove articles. I was going to file another request if I didn't reappear after 31 days after I fell off completely. Am I wasting my time? there is no doubt that sabatoge could be committed by competition by blasting them with spam links (previously I believed these would just be ignored by google to prevent sabatoge from becoming part of the job for most SEOs) Laugh at me, gasp in horror with me, or offer some advice... I'm open to chat and would love someone to tell me about a legit solution to this prob if they got one thanks!0