Penguin: Is there a "safe threshold" for commercial links?
-
Hello everyone,
Here I am with a question about Penguin. I am asking to all Penguin experts on these forums to help me understand if there is a "safe" threshold of unnatural links under which we can have peace of mind. I really have no idea about that, I am not an expert on Penguin nor an expert of unnatural back link profiles.
I have a website with about 84% natural links and 16% affiliate/commercial links. Should I be concerned about possibly being penalized by an upcoming Penguin update? So far, I have never been hit by any previous Penguin released, but... just in case, you experts, do you know what's the "threshold" of unnatural links that shouldn't be exceeded? Or, in your experience, what's the classic threshold over which Google can penalize a website for unnatural back link profile?
Thank you in advance to anyone helping me on this research!
-
Thank you Joshua for your additional reply and insights, may I ask you what are your two mentioned specific word phrases you wrote above about? Just curious, because those could be "brand" related keywords like "Virtual Sheet Music" or "Classical Sheet Music Downloads" which are both our own trademarks, therefore they should be considered as "natural"... you know what I mean.
As for our affiliate links, yes, those are the URLs I am concerned about. I was thinking to 302 redirect those instead than 301, but I am afraid also to lose a big deal of juice from them by doing that, even though I am aware that Google could have already discounted those links at some extent, but I am not sure how much, and I don't want to risk losing that little juice that could help us with rankings if not really needed. So, my choice would be to leave things how they are, and, yes, as you are suggesting, start building more "link-baits" to have more natural links, but as you know, that takes time...
I am eager to know your thoughts about my points above. Thank you!
-
Fabrizo,
Thank you for the the clarification. Ok so I did my own backlink analysis real quick and I'm actually seeing that 18% of your overall links are using a very specific two word phrase. At this point, I would stop building any type of exact match backlink and and start building with a variety of branded, url, maybe a couple clicks here, and so on and so on.
I think that you have hit a pretty close threshold in this circumstance. It may also be worth just focusing on writing some really good content in the meantime. Focus on Latent Semantic Indexing to cater to RankBrain and perhaps try putting together one really big idea that will capture the attention of journalist and bloggers. That way you will start acquiring a solid balance with strong semantic relevancy. That's what I would do at least until this new Penguin update is released.
On the other hand, I can tell which links are affiliate and which ones aren't. Each affiliate link is appended with /?af=verter so that the affiliate can get credit for that purchase, however, that means that the actual link is being built to a 301 redirect in which I feel Google dampens the affect of the link... by about 15% at least. Also, it is easily detected by Google but that doesn't mean they will necessarily penalize you for those events.
Now, Google might start frowning upon that. I can't be certain until it happens, but they've always been somewhat enemies with affiliate marketers.
There are more algorithm updates coming up in the near future and Barry Schwartz just reported that there is a big Penguin update coming in the near future: https://www.seroundtable.com/google-launch-date-penguin-22694.html
Keep in mind that this next update will be an ongoing version rather than a refresh.
-
Yes, I just watched that video 2 days ago, brilliant! Thank you Thomas, I am much less concerned now.
Appreciated!
-
Thank you for your answer Joshua, in my case I am talking about affiliates links that use often similar anchor texts that look like ads.
To give you a real example, my website is virtualsheetmusic.com, and pretty often affiliates link to us with, randomly, the following kind anchor text:
"download sheet music at Virtual Sheet Music"
"classical sheet music downloads"
"find violin sheet music on Virtual Sheet Music"
And so on... from what you describe, I shouldn't worry about it, first of all because of the percentage of this kind of anchor texts, second because they are varied anyway (they are not all the same), but of course Google is able to spot a pattern there and understand that they are not natural. Also, most of our affiliates have used our ready to use, copy & paste links, therefore many of them are exactly the same kind of links, but still, just around 16% of our overall inbound links.
I am just worried that Google could see that as a "link scheme" of some sort, and possibly penalize me... your final thoughts?
-
Rand kind of touched upon this with number 3 on here: https://moz.com/blog/weird-crazy-myths-about-link-building-in-seo-you-should-probably-ignore-whiteboard-friday
-
Fabrizo,
I think that you are asking the question that every link builder thinks about. When you say unnatural, that can mean a lot of things, so I would ask you to clarify the types of sites you are referring to. I tend to think about link building in a different way. Even if a link is "unnatural", which I define as a link that is built to the website by means of influence or submission, then it doesn't mean that penguin is going to see it as unnatural.
Instead, I consider the types of links that are pointing to my site. For instance, if my client has a scholarship and I reach out to a few regional universities which successfully acquires 4-5 .edu backlinks I wouldn't say that is natural but Google will still reward me for that.
Now, if I find a tool that will auto-create 200 web 2.0 profiles, spin massive amounts of content and then generate 1000 backlinks from various subdomains, then I can see that as being a detectable signal that Google will pretty easily pick up on.
If you are talking about a few fiverr gigs that you paid for or even paying a blogger to write an article and submit a contextual link to your site, I wouldn't be too worried about it if you vet the site and ensure that there aren't any red flags like too many outbound links, the site isn't indexed, the Moz spam score isn't through the roof and they have real credible backlinks pointed to their site as well.
From a perspective of looking at footprints, or possibly a private blog network you may have created, I'd say that everyone has their methods. There is a right way to build a blog network, and there is a wrong way to do that. You have to understand the footprints Google looks for and decide whether or not its the right choice for you.
I think the ratio you described is perfectly fine quite honestly. You have to consider that every backlink profile isn't perfect whether they are all natural or not. Consider if I decided I didn't like CompanyA.com in the serps being ahead of me and I decided to have some fiverr.com guy create 20,000 backlinks with all of the same anchor text pointing at the home page. That would be a negative SEO tactic that might damage their rank. However, Google knows that exists and their algorithm is also built to take that into account. They may still lose rank but if the site has a high amount of authority and trust with Google, it is likely not going to affect them as much and they can always disavow.
When it comes to anchor text, I would think in terms of ratio. I don't like my anchor text to exceed 15-20% and I think about it semantically. I use keyword variations in themes or groups so they are all diverse and then build with branded terms, the url, click here, etc....
It's all about balance. Not all links come from premium editorial content, bloggers, article directories, local citaitons, etc... There's a blend of links that naturally occur when you have a popular website and my focus would just be on ensuring that I am keeping that balanced and using competing sites that perform well to compare.
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
Question RE: Links in Headers, Footers, Content, and Navigation
This question is regarding this Whiteboard Friday from October 2017 (https://moz.com/blog/links-headers-footers-navigation-impact-seo). Sorry that I am a little late to the party, but I wanted to see if someone could help out. So, in theory, if header links matter less than in-content links, and links lower on the page have their anchor text value stripped from them, is there any point of linking to an asset in the content that is also in the header other than for user experience (which I understand should be paramount)? Just want to be clear.Also, if in-content links are better than header links, than hypothetically an industry would want to find ways to organically link to landing pages rather than including that landing page in the header, no? Again, this is just for a Google link equity perspective, not a user experience perspective, just trying to wrap my head around the lesson. links-headers-footers-navigation-impact-seo
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | 3VE0 -
Submitting url to link directories seen as un-natural link building?
Hi I have been a lurker for a long time, so I finally took the step to make my 1st post, and will hopefully start giving back more in the future since I have gained invaluable info from this great site Background I hired a new freelancer on our team of SEO consultants ("specialists") During the course a month he (the new consultant) submitted our website to numerous link directories (he assured me this is good), today I received the report of the work he had been doing for the past 4-weeks. I opened the report and I was furious and wanted to sack him there and then The Problem / My Question He had submitted our website to 150 directories with various levels of page rank, ranging from 7-1. Most of the directories are totally irrelevant to our niche (we are in the catering business) and he had gone and submitted the site to directories such as "finance busters", "questfinder" etc For all 150 submissions he used: exactly the same url exactly the same title exactly the same description exactly the same keywords My Concern Am I right to be worried about this? Or am I completely wrong and may this actually have an effect (even if none)? The way I see it is that Google is seeing 150 duplicate links coming from irrelevant directories all within a months time, which will trigger a red flag and possibly do major damage to my site, which has always been strictly white hat and been doing pretty well. p.s does link directory submissions even count these days anyway? Thanks for reading and advice very much welcome
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | timthetanker0 -
How to deal with link echoes of former hacked websites?
Hi all, I'd know which is the best way to deal with link echoes of former hacked websites that Webmaster tool reports. to clarify: when you download the backlink report from Webmaster tool you'll have a list of backlinks discovered, but if you follow one of those links you will see that on that page there is no link to your website. the source code is also clean, no hidden links or other dodgy technique. Since that the topic is usually miles away from my industry I have to assume at some point that site has been hacked by a spammer who placed that backlink. In this case what should I do? Ignore it, disavow the domain or what? Moreover, which is the best procedure when you have to face a site which points a lot of backlinks from only its sub-domains? For example: this dodgy spammy website : http://px949z32.com/ is apparently a desert, but when you do site:http://px949z32.com/ you'll discover 55,200 results! Would be it be enough to just disavow the root domain http://px949z32.com/?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | madcow78
As I don't want to wait too long before taking any action, my plan is to disavow all those domains without any mercy, although I can't find a current backlink in one of their pages. I will do this, as at the minute my concern is they will be hacked again and I have to face the same issue again and again Thanks to all, P.0 -
Why do these links violate Google's Quality Guideline?
My reconsideration request was declined by Google. Google said that some of the links to my site (www.pianomother.com) are still outside its quality guidelines. We provide piano lessons and sheet music on the site. Three samples are given. 1. http://www.willbeavis.com/links.htm 2. http://vivienzone.blogspot.com/2009/06/learning-how-to-play-piano.html 3. http://interiorpianoservice.com/links/ The first one is obvious because it is a link exchange page. I don't understand why the 2nd and 3rd ones are considered "inorganic links" by Google. The 2nd link is a blog that covers various topics including music, health, computer, etc. The 3rd one is a page of the site that provides piano related services. Other resources related to piano including my website are listed on the page. Please help. Thanks. John
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | pianomother0 -
Better ranking competitors have paid links from blog pages
I have a trial of all the tools at the moment and it's a lot of fun. I have been delving into site explorer and found that some competitors have links to them from obvious seo promoting paid blog sites. One has no other links except a paid for blog from a site that openly admits it offers paid marketing and they shot up to 4th on page one for a main keyword phrase. The info from moz and matt cuts video's say not to do this, but it's so tempting. The blog is well written, while I sit here and do the right thing, my competitors have page one. If the blog is well written and is meaningful is it OK and if google ever decide it's paid and don't like it, wouldn't it be better to be page one for 6 months and then recover? I'd love to give the link to the seo, blogger thingy but don't want to come across as promoting it in any way. I am sure there are loads of them anyway.
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | Peter24680 -
"NOINDEX,FOLLOW" same as "NOINDEX, FOLLOW" ?
Notice the space between them - I am trying to debug my application and sometimes it put in a space - Will this small difference matter to the bots?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | bjs20100 -
Can our white hat links get a bad rap when they're alongside junk links busted by Panda?
My firm has been creating content for a client for years - video, blog posts and other references. This client's web vendor has been using bad links and link farms to bolster rank for key phrases - successfully. Until last week when Google slapped them. They have been officially warned on WMT for possibly using artificial or unnatural links to build PageRank. They went from page one of the most popular term in Chicago for their industry where they had been for over a year - to page 8 - overnight. Other less generic terms that we were working on felt the sting as well. I was aware of and had warned the client of the possibility of repercussions from these black hat tactics (http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-google-makes-liars-out-of-the-good-guys-in-seo#jtc170969), but didn't go as far as to recommend they abandon them. Now I'm wondering if one of our legitimate sites (YoChicago.com), which has more than its share of the links into the client site is being considered a bad link. All of our links are legitimate, i.e., anchor text equals description of destination, video links describe the entity that is linked to. Our we vulnerable? Any insight would be appreciated.
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | mikescotty0 -
How to get rid of black hat links?
I have recently discovered that one of my clients has either been sabotaged or has done this himself. In the case that he didn't do anything, how do you go about getting rid of bad links? There is now over a 1000 bad links linked to his site, do I report them as spam or what is the best way to fix this?
White Hat / Black Hat SEO | | StrategicEdgePartners0