Knowledge Graph product carousel: The mystery of ranking

[RobM416]

When you search for software-related terms, Google serves a carousel-style item above the organic listings. I've been assuming this is part of the Google Knowledge Graph. See http://imgur.com/a/TQpM5

The mystery lies in the selection of companies that are included in this carousel: the brands included are completely unrelated to the brands that rank well in the "normal" organic search listings. Giving that more color, here are the top 5 brands in "normal" organic search listings, for the query "invoice software," noting where they appear in the carousel:      BRAND    //  normal organic search position //   carousel position

• Wave                      //       1st    //       not present in carousel
• Quickbooks           //       2nd    //       1
• NCHSoftware        //       3rd    //       not present in carousel
• Invoicely                 //       4th    //       not present in carousel
• Freshbooks            //       5th    //       not present in carousel

Inversely, here are the top 5 in the carousel, noting where they appear in the "normal" organic search listings, again for the query "invoice software":

BRAND    //  carousel position //   normal organic search position

• Quickbooks             //       1st    //       2nd
• Zoho Office           //       2nd    //       9th
• Invoicera              //       3rd    //          15th
• Hiveage                //       4th    //          30th
• Apptivo                 //       5th    //       not present in first 10 pages of search results

Here's an annotated image of the same thing: http://imgur.com/a/0Pa6j
--I represent a brand (I'd rather not mention which) that ranks super well in the normal organic search listings, but doesn't rank accordingly in the knowledge graph carousel.

WHAT WE'VE TRIED

• implemented Schema markup

• updated Wikidata information

• updated Wikipedia information

We've reviewed the code on the pages that DO appear in the carousel, and haven't found any common threads.

Several weeks have passed since those initiatives. We've been re-indexed in that time, but are still not included in the search carousel.

I've seen people suggest resources like this
https://searchenginewatch.com/sew/how-to/2299454/4-google-carousel-optimization-tips
but those tips aren't addressing this problem. Also, things like claiming your business or other local business validation (which we've done) don't seem material to a non-local product search (but stranger things have happened, I know...).

A couple of SEOs have suggested AMP, but I've yet to see any authoritative info suggesting a link between AMP and desktop results.

Any help appreciated! I will report back on my findings.

This is a follow-up to a question I previously posted here: https://moz.com/community/q/kinds-of-organic-search-results-google

TQpM5 0Pa6j

[KHritz]

I was curious if you found any resolution to your question about the Software top carousel. I am an SEO for a global software company and have noticed our listings in some of these but not others. They are not showing in any tools I'm using to track search features/snippets. I assume that's because a click on the listing goes to another search (of that product name) rather than to a URL.

I've considered adding Software Schema to our pages thinking that might give us a boost. But reading your responses, it sounds like there is no correlation. Have you found anything new about how to optimize for these?

[RobM416]

Thanks Peter.

We're still on the hunt here, too, without resolution. I'll post when we crack the nut.

We've also reached as deep into our Google contacts as possible, with no clarity.

Cheers.

[Dr-Pete]

I've seen a relationship between some of those carousels and search volume, but it appears to be more complex than that (and I think there's a Knowledge Graph component). I don't think markup is having a big impact right now, except for highly specialized results (like recipes). Haven't gotten a good answer from Google, though.

[RobM416]

Interesting. Are you suggesting that Google chooses who to include based on the volume of brand searches that it gets for each brand?

That doesn't necessarily match my expectation of who is already showing in the carousel, but I don't have solid data on it.

We continue to experiment with meta, markup, wiki, etc. No results yet. If anyone else has suggestions, I'd love to know. And I'll post outcomes here.

[Dr-Pete]

I can't do much more than speculate, I'm afraid -- I haven't seen any write-ups that seemed to do more than guess. Traditionally, the carousel results were Knowledge Graph driven, but that seems to have evolved. Some carousels are clearly based on search volume. See, for example...

https://www.google.com/search?q=best+movies+of+1984

I guess it no longer states this, but at some point I swear there was help text claiming this was tied to search volume. So, the Knowledge Graph is probably providing the movie list, but volume is driving who "ranks", so to speak.

I suspect something similar is happening with these new business listings, but I'm not sure. Google hates when people manipulate search volume, so they're very unlikely to confirm this.

I don't believe this is connected to any kind of schema or on-page markup at this point. Updating your Wikidata information is probably a good step, but not a sufficient one to get into the list (I suspect).