Hiding Page Titles By Display None
-
Hi. I am new to this community, and new to SEO as well. A friend asked me to give them suggestions on onsite optimization for their Drupal website.
I know page titles are very important, and usually they should be set to H1. (At least I think) This particular website has all their page titles set to H2 and they are using display:none in their stylesheet to hide them for graphic design reasons.
What would be the most practical work around for this? We don't want this to appear sketchy in the eyes of the SE's, but putting page titles at the top of their pages really would take away from their graphical design.
The second issue is that they use a module called Quicktabs for tabbed product specs on each page. Each tab is actually pulled from a post (called a node in Drupal), so each tab has it's own title that is an H2. So not only are they hiding the main page title, but they are hiding 5 others within the tabs, and their are 6 H2 elements showing up on each product page all set to display:none.
Any creative suggestions?
Hope that makes sense....
Thank you!
-
WOW! Let me just say that again, WOW!
Yes, I would suggest a Drupal person or perhaps a better template. This one seems out of date as it still uses inline CSS. As Mary Anne mentioned, there are other issues as well.
Before you try and re-write everything for the H2s, I would look at some other code issues such as the alt tags.
Personally, I would look for another template after talking to someone who knows Drupal.
All the best
-
Thanks Maryanne,
I will definitely mention those image sizes. They are pretty large.
I need to get an H1 onto these pages. H1's are important, right?
In your opinions, what would be the most effective/least harmful method of doing this....for short term until we can figure something better out.....
- Set the hidden titles to be H1's instead of H2's?
or
- Manually go into each page and create an H1 using the post WYSIWYG editor? (Using this method, the H1 would come AFTER the H2, but at least it would not be hidden)
What are your thoughts?
-
Sheesh...I knew I wasn't losing my marbles when I thought this looked more complicated than normal. This CMS is Drupal.....just FYI, here's what is happening...
These pages are made in a module (equivalent to a plug in for Wordpress) called Panels. With panels, you can define content areas within your page, kind of like creating
sections. Eachsection is called a pane. In this case, they pulled in the information they are showing in each pane through another module called Views. So, on the lt3g page, there are 2 different panes above the tabbed section.
When you create a pane, Drupal asks you for a pane title. The tabs at the bottom are also a module that pulls posts into a tabbed section. Since each post has its own title, each tab shows an H2. In total, there are 10 H2s on this page!!
And the Analytics code is Google anlaytics installed into a pane. (I don't think they had to install the code onto every page, but they did), and they titled the pane 'Analytics'
I think this might be a job for a Drupal themer. Maybe that's what I will propose this company look into.
Also, for the
| FRS Custom Solutions, which indicates there should be something before the pipe, the <title>tag would go before the pipe, and installing the page_title module would allow you to define that.</p> <p>Usually I hear good things about Drupal, but I think in this case, with the use of panels to make pages, it just complicated things.</p></title>
-
Although the hiding of those headers is a little odd, I doubt you'd get hit for it as the hidden h2's are all consistent with the displayed content - it doesn't look (to me, at least) like anything's being done in a spammy manner. H2's are a very weak ranking factor to begin with, and It's not like you're keyword stuffing or trying to rank for irrellevant keywords. Of course, if you can find someone who can tweak things and treat those elements appropriately, all the better.
Off topic, but you may also suggest to your friend that they optimize their images. Those image files on the first page you mentioned are very large for the sizes at which they are being displayed and needlessly add to the page load times.
-
On the LT3G page, you have these elements that should be headers.
- ComLink LT<sup>3G</sup>
- <sup>MEDICARE APPROVED</sup>
- <sup>ComLink LT<sup>3G</sup> - Product Overview</sup>
- <sup>With the ComLink LT<sup>3G</sup>, you can:</sup>
But they are manipulated by in-line CSS. Even though there are H2s with appropriate text for the header?
Then you have this
## Products-LT3G Main Image
Which would go above your image LT3G-Rtg-Rot-Web.png
So you are saying you do not need the text atop the image for esthetics. Which is understandable.
Therefore, why do you not have that H2 tag classed to swap the text for the image? Or can you not manipulate your CMS this way?
On the Company page I am not sure why the H2 is below the text.
## Analytics Code
And what is the analytics code? : )
First, and for other reasons than the H2, this CMS is not very good. I feel as though you will continue to have many issues moving forward. Such as page titles. For the company page you have | FRS Custom Solutions which indicates that there should be something before the pipe (|).
I do not see yet a clear way out of this as the H2s are used for headers in some cases and then for nothing in others such as the analytics code.
Am I following this correctly, or totally missing the boat here?
-
No, I have no control over showing it. Drupal forces you to give each page a title.
http://www.frs-solutions.com/content/comlink-lt3g
Here is a link to one of the inner pages. This page has an image. But here is a page with no image: http://www.frs-solutions.com/content/Company
I am not knowlegable enough with CSS and creating template pages to go about having the title display as an image on some pages, but as text on others.
-
the first question would be why have it at all if you do not want to show it. I presume you have no control over it showing?
Then I would ask; in that space, what is showing now and why could you not swap for an image?
It might be better for you to post the URL of the site so I can see what you are trying to accomplish.
-
Ok. That's what I thought. But I wasn't sure. Do you know, is there any legitimate way to hide a post title (that's forced by the CMS) from both SE's and visitors without using the image swap method?
-
Sketchy as it adds no value to the visitor. It just depends on how often SEs look at CSS as to if/when you will get penalized. They might not look at the CSS unless they see other indicators.
What you are doing I would consider keyword manipulation, and that is sketchy.
Always look at the value of what you do with respect to visitors. If it adds no value, don't do it.
I hope that helps
-
Hi Richard,
Thanks for your response. Sorry if I was unclear...I am referring to the titles of the post. Not the <title>tag. Drupal forces you to give each post a title. And yes, the post titles are set to display as H2's, but the H2's in the stylesheet are set to display:none like this:</p> <div class="cssHead focusRow "><span class="cssSelector ">h2</span> {</div> <div class=" "> <div class="cssPropertyListBox "> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class=" "> </span><span class="cssPropName editable ">color</span><span class="cssColon ">: </span><span class="cssPropValue editable ">#595959</span><span class="cssSemi ">;</span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class=" "> </span><span class="cssPropName editable ">display</span><span class="cssColon ">: </span><span class="cssPropValue editable ">none</span><span class="cssSemi ">;</span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class=" "> </span><span class="cssPropName editable ">font-size</span><span class="cssColon ">: </span><span class="cssPropValue editable ">22px</span><span class="cssSemi ">;</span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class=" "> </span><span class="cssPropName editable ">margin</span><span class="cssColon ">: </span><span class="cssPropValue editable ">0.8em 0</span><span class="cssSemi ">;</span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class="cssSemi "><br /></span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class="cssSemi ">There is no image swapping or text indent. So, search engines CAN see the H2, but visitors can't. Would this be considered sketchy or creative CSS?</span></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "></div> <div class="cssProp focusRow editGroup "><span class="cssSemi ">And no, they are not in order... H2 obviously comes first on the page, followed by an H1 element if it's manually inserted onto the page.<br /></span></div> </div> </div></title>
-
Hi April,
Headers and Titles are different, so are you saying that Drupal pulls the title from the H2? If so, are you swapping out the text for an image, or just moving the text off the screen?
It is not uncommon to move text off the screen and swap that placeholder with an image, although it would look a bit sketchy to just move the text out of sight.
[Without direct knowledge] I don't believe Google is penalizing for creative CSS work unless they spot sketchy behavior such as moving lots of text out of view, which they would see as adding no value to the visitor, but would see it as keyword manipulation.
When you swap for an image, you have to define a size for the image space. This would indicate to the SEs that you are in fact moving text and swapping for an image of a certain size.
Sketchy would look like text indent of -9999px with no width or height size or with a very small width or height size of perhaps a couple pixels. Or not even indicating an background image for the div.
In short, if you are swapping text for an image, you are fine and this is common practice as long as SEs can see that this is for visual enhancements rather than keyword manipulation.
I would not worry as much about which headers are used as long as they are used in order. Such as H1s followed by H2s followed by H3s followed by H4s. Not H2s then a H3 then H1. Not that this would penalize you, but it is best practice.
I hope this answered your question
Got a burning SEO question?
Subscribe to Moz Pro to gain full access to Q&A, answer questions, and ask your own.
Browse Questions
Explore more categories
-
Moz Tools
Chat with the community about the Moz tools.
-
SEO Tactics
Discuss the SEO process with fellow marketers
-
Community
Discuss industry events, jobs, and news!
-
Digital Marketing
Chat about tactics outside of SEO
-
Research & Trends
Dive into research and trends in the search industry.
-
Support
Connect on product support and feature requests.
Related Questions
-
On page links
Hi I am really intrigued by Bloomberg strategy. if you look at their article pages they are full with internal links done with what I assume to be an automated process (too many pages to be done manually). it seems to work for them. I would love to hear your opinions.
On-Page Optimization | | ciznerguy
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-26/uber-said-close-to-raising-funding-at-up-to-40b-value.html0 -
Page Titles For Local - Help on URL Structure
Trying to figure out the best way to construct localized urls for the dental website. For example, If I have the URL:
On-Page Optimization | | Czubmeister
http://www.kooskidental.com/services/cosmetic-dentistry/
and If I want to make it local to the city I would use: http://www.kooskidental.com/services/richardson-tx-cosmetic-dentistry/ But what happens is that I have other options off the menu like: http://www.koooskidental.com/services/richardson-tx-cosmetic-dentistry/teeth-whitening/ But if I am trying to rank for richardson tx teeth whitening, I would have to do http://www.koooskidental.com/services/richardson-tx-cosmetic-dentistry/richardson-tx-teeth-whitening/ But that's pretty long and ugly and I don't think I need richardson-tx in their twice. If I am trying to rank for richardson tx cosmetic dentistry and richardson tx teeth whitening, what would be the best structure for the url's?0 -
Too Many On-Page Links
Hi, I did a SEOmoz campaign and got results today, One of the results is Too "Many On-Page Links" when i am drilling down, i see that that's include inside links. for example, i sale food, i have my main department window - inside i have 30 products - each product is linked to a detailed page about the product. so automatically i have 30 links - not including all the others in this page, and i easily get over 100 and even sometimes 200 is this a big issue? does it damages my SEO? If yes, is there a way to write the HTML in a way that internal links like that wont be counted? Thank you SEOWiseUs
On-Page Optimization | | iivgi0 -
3 keywords optomize for home page. Should I create page with thoses keywords or leave it like this?
My online store home page, Furnace Filters Canada has 3 keywords with good ranking in google.ca keywords: ''furnace filters canada'' rank #1 position in google.ca keywords: ''furnace filters'' and ''furnace filter'' are on 5 or 6th position of page 1 in google.ca Those keywords are bringing most of the traffic to our site. To achieve this ranking, I had to use the On-Page Keyword Optimization, tool from seoMoz Questions: It is possible for me to create a page with the URL: https://www.furnacefilterscanada.com/Furnace-Filters or https://www.furnacefilterscanada.com/Furnace-Filter Can this improve my ranking with keywords like, ''furnace filters'' and ''furnace filter''? Is this a waist of time? If I decide to create a new page for optimization with, do I have to create one for singular and another one for plural? Creating a new page also mean removing, '' Furnace Filter'' in the home page title, until the new pages are index, I'm afraid to loss that 5th position in Google. Should I leave the home page title like it is now, '' Furnace Filter - Furnace Filters Canada - Online Shopping Store NOTE: we only do business in Canada, that is why Google.ca is more important to us Thank you, Jean Nichols
On-Page Optimization | | BigBlaze2050 -
® is displaying as o in the SERP pages
Hello All, A client's site was recently redesigned and since the redesign the ® is not displaying as such in the search engines when created using Option+R on a Mac. If it is created using ® it works fine. I suspect it has something to do with the programming or the CMS. Other sites on this CMS seem to not have this problem from what I have seen so far. http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cliff+stevenson#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=cliff stevenson calgary realtor&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=23c2bd992ac36d9d&pf=p&pdl=3000 As more time goes on, title tags and descriptions that are months or years old are also digressing to the 0. I have cued up a few tests and once crawled will have narrowed down whether it is a CMS issue or not. Won't have completely done so, but much closer. The CMS says they have made no changes that would have caused this. The programming gang on my end says they did nothing different on this site then on others so it can't be on us. The classic 'no way it can by us, it has to be them' from all angles. I am stuck in the middle trying to find the solution. Has anyone else ever come across this problem? Thoughts?
On-Page Optimization | | kyegrace0 -
Page Indexing
Hello All Nice easy question! I've made some on page changes to page titles, content, H1s etc but wanted to know if there was a way to check if Google has reindexed the page since the changes were made? I appreciate the different factors that will help improve your crawl rate like new content, external links, domain authority etc. I made these changes around 2 weeks ago. Google has cached the pages since I made the changes but not picked up on the new page titles in the search results. Cheers Todd
On-Page Optimization | | todd75850 -
SEO Value of Within-Page Links vs. Separate Pages
Title says it all. Assuming that you're talking about similar content (let's say, widgets), which is better: using within-page links for variations or using separate pages? I.e., do we have a widget page and then do in-page links to describe green, blue, and red widgets, or separate pages for each type of widget? In-page pro: more content on a single page, thus more keywords, key phrases, and general appearance of real content. In-page con: Jakob Neilsen says they're confusing. Also, for SEO, you only get one page title, rather than a separate page title for each. My personal bias is for in-page, since I hate creating dozens of short pages for what could be on one page, but my suspicion is that separate pages are better for SEO.
On-Page Optimization | | maxkennerly0 -
Pages crawled
I noticed there is a limited in the number of pages crawled on galena.org? Will this number increase over time?
On-Page Optimization | | nskislak240